Ensidia

Rogue Guide (Last updated 5/13/2010)

By Uhohuhoh, Undead Rogue

US – Bleeding Hollow

***UPDATED FOR 3.3.3***

Being a good rogue is considered one of the easiest things to do as a World of Warcraft player – compared to being good at other classes. Rogues are known to be a two button (Mutilate, Envenom) class with some wicked survivability tricks. All of this might be true if your simply running dungeons and trying to hit an 1800 arena rating. However, being a truly good rogue – one who truly excels and PvE and/or PvP – requires a lot more than what most people think. Being a good rogue requires dedication, patience, skill, and understanding. The goal of this guide is to help explain and debunk some rogue myths, as well as help you understand what it takes to be a good rogue, and how to get there.

To better organize this, I will be dividing it into two major sections, Combat and Mutilate, and each of these sections will have their own respective sub-sections. If someone would like to write a PvP section for this, I would be happy to put it up.

Raiding as a rogue, you really only have one goal and purpose for the raid: To do as much damage as possible. Rogues have no buffs and a weak debuff (compared to other classes). While this is not always the case based on the fight and how Blizzard changes WoW at any given time, rogues, on a static fight, should be the top damage doers in the raid. Please note, I am making a clear difference here between DPS (damage per second), and damage (overall damage done). Rogues generally will not be on top of the DPS meters even if they are on top of the damage meters, because casters (such as arcane mages) generally have much higher DPS. However, since they are limited by mana, they cannot dps during the entire fight, and need to take breaks to regenerate their mana. This is part of what allows rogues to be highest on damage and yet not highest on DPS.

Deciding Between Combat and Mutilate for PvE

This is much easier than a lot of people make it into. While it is true that at any given time the actual talents within the Combat or Mutilate trees will put one slightly (if Blizzard is doing their job correctly) ahead of another*, rarely is this difference so great that you have to chose one or the other. Usually, Blizzard tries to keep specs within 0%-5% damage differences. Simply put, chose the spec that you have the best weapons for. Weapons are they key limiting factor in rogue dps, and you should spec around what you have.

*Usually, Mutilate on a static fight will be slightly ahead of Combat, due to Combat’s increased versatility in return for slightly less damage.

PvE as Combat

The goal of the combat spec is to maximize white damage while at the same time giving you several options for burst/aoe damage. While combat may not be theoretically better than mutilate (though with recent changes they are very close), it does have its advantages for certain fights when burst is important. Adrenaline Rush and Killing Spree mixed with Blade Furry can be a very deadly combination. Ideally right now, a combat rogue will aim to either hit the Arp soft cap* (with stats on gear + gems) while using an Arp trinket (most common) or, at high levels of gear and with the Death Bringer’s Will** (dbw) trinket, get close to the hard cap. If you have the weapons for it, combat can be a very viable and powerful spec that can shine on certain fights.

*This number changes as there are several versions of this trinket, but getting between 700-750 Arp will put you on track.
**While DBW is by no means required to hard cap, it is very difficult to do so without it.

viable (as of 5/13/2010) Combat PvE specs (Sword/Axe version):

Ø Standard Arp Ruptureless 20/51 <-- Gem 20 Arp in everything until you hit your soft or hard Arp cap. Remember to use a nightmare tear to activate your meta-gem* and get a nice socket bonus! If you do get to your soft/hard cap, gem 20AP/10Haste in yellow sockets to grab socket bonuses if they are any good. If not, or you have a blue socket, 40AP. This spec can be used by any combat rogue with any level of gear, and is very useful/viable when you have high levels of Arp but not AP (such as maybe when your in full 264 gear).

Ø Arp Rupture 20/51 <-- Gemming wise you still want to get to your soft/hard Arp cap. However, once you do reach this, you should gem Agility gems, instead of attack power, as this will increase the crit procs from Rupture. Please be careful of your crit cap (talked about later). If you run into crit cap issues, revert back to AP gems. This spec is very useful for low end rogues, and high end rogues. Theoretically it is superior to the Ruptureless spec, but I encourage you to check a spreadsheet to double check for you - it changes widly with gear. Also, should you find your energy regen is low, you may find it useful to move the 3 points from improved Eviscerate into Ruthlessness.

*For your meta-gem, you always want to use a Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (RED - 21agi/3%crit). Please note: Using a single Nightmare Tear gem (+10 stats) will fulfill all of a RED's requirnments.

PvE as Mutilate

The goal of the Mutilate spec is to maximize single target damage by maximizing your poison damage. Usually*, a Mutilate rogue will gem AP and AP/Haste to maximize poison damage via attack power and weapon swings. Mutilate rogues want to stay away from Arp as much as possible – it does not benefit poison damage at all, everything else does – and often run into problem with what is called the “crit cap”. More detail on this will be provided further on in the guide. There has been talk recently of Mutilate rogues using two fast daggers. With the recent nerf to the poison AP multiplier, using two fast daggers will be a dps loss. Also, Vigor is NOT a talent you should ever spec into for PvE. It gives you no more energy regen (rogue energy regens at a CONSTANT rate, disregarding procs from talents), and as Mut you do not worry about capping energy (or at least, you shouldn’t if you are playing correctly.)

*At top level gear, gemming pure hatse is most benefitial as it is a way to force gear scaling via improved poison swings and improved energy regen.

Viable (as of 3/15/10) Mutilate specs:

Ø Standard 51/18/2 <-- Gem Attack Power and AP/Haste. Use a Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (RED - 21agi/3%crit) for your meta. Activate it using a Tear gem (+10 stats).

Rogues Tips/Pointers

One of the most important things that many rogues tout is strict adherence to a specific rotation. People ask many times on forums “what cycle/rotation should I use for spec X Y Z and gear A B C...?”

People ask this question hoping that they will receive the magic answer and all their dps problems will be solved. They are wrong. THERE IS NONE.

You read that correct. There is NO SINGLE CYCLE/ROTATION THAT ALWAYS WORKS. You can say as much as you want about it, but it doesn't matter, and any of you who ask for it or listen to it are probably not maximizing your dps.

Here's why: [cp = Combo Point]

1. Every rogue is different. Everyone has different gear, and even a single piece of gear can completely separate one rogue from another.

Examples:

- My energy regeneration might be better, because I hit more often with my offhand than you do because of Haste differences.

- My crit might be better than yours, which for both specs (see talent: Focuses Attacks and glyph: Glyph of Sinister Strike - and really, don't even get me started on how glyphs change dynamics and factors) will give me different energy or combo point generation.

2. Every fight is different (try Mimiron hard mode if you don't believe me :P). Every fight has a different set of dynamics that require certain things at certain times that everyone reacts to in their own way.

Examples:

- Different guilds have different uses for their rogues. For example, you might be keeping a healer locked down on faction champs or the water spirit in the Freya encounter, while another rogue might be spamming FoK on Faction Champs, pwning the shaman healer, or making sure the tank dies to the Snaplasher. Just because you do it one way does not mean that everyone else (even the people in your own guild! - talk about bitchy 10 mans) does it that way. This alone effectively kills any rotation/cycle that involves a fight where you get off the boss to attack something else.

- The only fight in the game (lvl 80 content) where you do not move at all (XT you might move, general you might move, Fester you might move, Deathbringer you might move) is Patch.

Since I have clearly shown that cycle/rotation X/Y/Z does not work unless every rogue plays the same and is in the same gear (down to the last gem), I will now talk about the actual ways to maximize your dps.

Rogue DPS Rules - What you actually need to know!

- Don't wipe the raid

- Don't die. A dead rogue is a useless rogue. (If this violates the first principle, it is acceptable to die.)

1. Maximize SnD uptime

2. Highest dps for Combat will usually be attained by maximizing the number of Eviscerates without dropping SnD (and Rupture, if your using it). For Mutilate, it will usually be attained my maximizing the number of Envenoms without dropping SnD, Hunger for Blood (HfB), and the Envenom buff.

3. Don't energy cap. Capped energy is wasted energy.

4. Slow MH** (high weapon DAMAGE), fast OH (speed, see talent: Combat Potency, or, look at the damage multipliers on your abilities such as SS and Mutilate, and you will see they do more damage with a higher damage weapon).

**Please note: For Mutilate rogues, it has been shown that fast-dagger main hand is viable. Use the highest DPS daggers possible. If given the choice between a fast dagger and a slow dagger of the same DPS for your main hand, use the slow one.

5. Instant poison on your main hand, Deadly poison on your offhand.

Following these rules will give you maximum dps on any fight; regardless of your gear or what you are assigned to do (this is assuming you are attacking a single target). You might even call this a play style.

Thought I might include some additional useful hints/numbers for anyone who cares.

- We don't care what your dps on a dummy is, unless you tested it at least three times, from full health to 0, with a full 25 man raid, including all debuffs to the target and all your buffs.

- Haste DOES stack. >> Using AR and/or BF and/or a haste pot together or with bloodlust/heroism WILL give you extra dps. Do not do this if you are in danger of energy capping, or close to the Haste soft cap (internal gcd).

- Speaking of cool downs. For a fight that does NOT require burst damage at certain points, you should use your CDs as soon as possible and continue to use them when they become available. (Please do not pull aggro at the beginning of a fight because of this, and attempting to time CDs with trinket procs is useful, as long as you don’t wait so long that you limit the number of times you can use said CD.)

- If you have over 700 Arp (theoretical - with gems) and an Arp trinket, feel safe to gem it. Arp has increasing returns to scale. If you don't have a trinket, you will lose out by gemming it. However, it has been shown that at very high levels (usually requiring the DBW trinket), Arp reaches a high enough value that it is worth gemming it and not using a trinket. Please consult your local spreadsheet :)

Arp hardcap is 1400. Arp softcap =1400 - arp value of your trinket proc.

The Expertise cap is 26 (for being behind a target. Tanks want 55 to be capped in front of a target). Anything above 26 is mostly useless (see Crit Cap).

The Special Ability (Yellow) Hit cap is 99 (263 w/o Precision). The Poison Hit cap while unbuffed for a raid is 315. This is the minimum number you should be looking for. The White Hit cap is around 722. These numbers change as buffs/debuffs are added in (hate Alliance: P). All these numbers assume 5/5 Precision.

The Crit Cap is the number at which point you no longer benefit from getting more crit. In a simple example, if my Crit Cap is 60%, and I have 65% crit in my raid, I am getting no benefit from the last 5%. The Crit Cap is derived from a combination of your Expertise and Hit. I will not go into detail on it in this guide. I have posted two links below that will answer any and all questions regarding the Crit Cap. Crit Cap becomes a big issue starting around ilvl 245+ gear.

(Thanks to Necrorised for this section) ENCHANTS:

Head: Arcanum of Torment (Order of the Ebon Hand - Exalted).

Shoulders: Master's Inscription of the Axe (if you are inscriber), Greater Inscription of the Axe (if you are not; Sons of Hodir - Exalted).

Cloak: Swordguard Embroidery (if you are tailor), Flexweave Underlay (if you are engineer), Greater Speed or Major Agility (both are acceptable).

Chest: Powerful Stats

Bracers: Fur Lining: Attack Power (if you are leatherworker), Greater Assault (if you are not).

Gloves: Hyperspeed Accelerators (if you are engineer), Crusher (if you are not).

Belt: Eternal Belt Buckle.

Legs: Icescale Leg Armor.

Boots: Nitro Boosts (if you are engineer), Cat's Swiftness or Icewalker (both are acceptable). Tuskkarr's Vitality is also more than acceptable as Combat spec only.)

Rings: Assault (if you are enchanter).

Weapon: Berserking

Please feel free to contact me if you have any question/remarks about anything that I have said. I am looking to add a PvP section to this guide, but know nothing about PvP. If someone would be interested in writing something along the same format as what you see above, I would be happy to look it over, edit it with you, and then add it in. Thank you.

Uhohuhoh – US Bleeding Hollow, 80 Undead Rogue.

Produced for Ensidia at www.ensidia.com Much thanks to Krematoria for his support.

Outside Links:

Hit/Expertise

http://rogue-80.blogspot.com/2009/08/rogue-80-hit-cap.html

Crit Cap

Crit Cap Guide At MMO

Crit Cap Calculator

Rogue Spreadsheets (All links have Combat and Mut options)

Aldriana's

Mavanas’s

Chack’s Java App

Very nice work!

/sticky plz!

got confirmed some points, thx.

good work

Thanks guys! If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask!

first of all, a nice guide!

but you say rogues dont give buffs, if I understand it correctly, but both Combat and mutialte do give buffs;

Mutilate: Master poisoner

Combat: Savage combat

maybe I don't get the talents right :p

and Its time for blizzard to improve subtlety! :D

First of all i wanna say that this is a very nice guide:).

Now as you mentioned that Assassination rogues should avoid speccing into Vigor and even glyph for it, i got a word to that.

Everytime you do an Envenom, you get the buff (i think it's called envenom), you gain an increased chance of hitting with both your poisons, and if you are basicly low on energy all the time, you wouldn't gain as much out of this as if u waited for u energy to pop up to the full 120(if glyphed), and use you mutilates, then they hit an extra time with the poisons and deal extra damage. Now always remember that ur energy shoulnd't be at the total 120, just very close. And aswell don't let the SnD drop off. I find this a way to maximize the dps even more, and the talent lost in Fleet Footed is not that big a deal for me, since we have Sprint and Nitro boots(Engineer).

Either way nice guide :)

@Druiper: Rogues have no buffs (something you put on another player). I do mention that rogues have a "weak debuff". Certain DPS Warriors have the same debuff as Combat Rogues but also have buffs (shouts). Im not sure if anyone has the same debuff as Mutilate Rogues - not very familiar with other classes :(

@Dreazzon: You really shouldn't be pooling energy too much as Mutilate. Yes, you should try and maximize the Envenom buff uptime, but I'm not sure why your energy regen is at the point that you are getting near 120. When you refresh Envenom, you should try and do it with around half a second left on the buff due to player-server lag/computation time. If your energy regeneration is that good, it makes sense to just use Envenom even with the buff up, otherwise your not maximizing Envenom damage over the whole fight. (I can't believe though [no offense intended], that you have so much haste tat you could be generating that much energy. Armory link please?)

Example:

So lets say you just used Envenom. That gives you 4.5 seconds before you have to use it again. In that time, you have to do 1 or maybe 2 Mutilates. Lets say you only do 1. Thats 55 energy. Lets say everything went your way, and you got the extra energy from Relentless Strikes. So after your enveom, you had 25 energy, which means you needed to wait about 1.5 second before you get to 55. So your 1.5 seconds in, and in 3 seconds you need to do your envenom. You use Mutilate. You now have 0 energy. You need to get to 35 for Envenom. Thats another 1.5-2 seconds. You now need to use Envenom in 1 second. In 1 second, you will generate around 16 energy (assuming both your daggers crit on their attacks).

So based on this, you might start generating 10-16 extra energy every now and then, and after 3-5 cycles of your rotation, that might be putting you close to the energy cap. Now, this is all of course assuming you only have to use 1 Mutilate. That extra energy is almost certainly going to be used on an extra Mutilate somewhere along the line. If its not though, you might just be able to get in an extra Envenom when the buff is up.

On a side note, neither Nitro Boots nor Sprint reduce the time on movement imparing effects, which Fleet Footed does by 30%.

If you see something wrong here please tell me. I love being corrected and learning new things!

Very nice guide Uhohuhoh!!!

By the way it should be pretty obvious for everybody, but it would be a nice addition to put in your guide the best enchantments-patches for each slot.

Keep up the good work!

this says nothing about predicting and preloading damage into trinket procs, unloading during another rogues tricks of the trade, vanishing boss mechanics etc.

Why write a guide about top tier rogue play and forget top tier play?